Curse

Obrien Xp · Jul 08, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

The only reason I even have a perma (in the works, I'm too lazy to actually make one and stick with it) is because I need to fill my gh. I can't garner that sort of cash any other way. I hate farming and find it boring, but how else will a make sufficient cash to do anything that costs alot?

Arkantos · Jul 08, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

The only reason I even have a perma (in the works, I'm too lazy to actually make one and stick with it) is because I need to fill my gh. I can't garner that sort of cash any other way. I hate farming and find it boring, but how else will a make sufficient cash to do anything that costs alot?

Wait, what? You hate farming? What are you doing with your assassin, then?

Obrien Xp · Jul 08, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Wait, what? You hate farming? What are you doing with your assassin, then?

Letting it sit in the char select screen, when I get the need to use it I'll finish it up and farm. I hate farming but how else will I make money? Its one of those, I hate it but I gotta do it.

Targren · Jul 09, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Yes because out of all the explorables in the game you picked ones that offer absolutely nothing to a Perma. Jade Sea? Who gives a crap. Expunge Enchantments screws over the Perma, Dark Apostasy screws over the 600. The only thing there worth 'farming' would be The Deep but frankly that place is so retarded i don't really include it as part of the game.

Luxon faction, perhaps? Though I'm glad you've come right out and admitted you will simply pretend counterpoints to your arguments don't exist.

Quote:

Urgoz on the other hand, speed runners use Perma's for that. More importantly, they use it to pull mobs out of the way so they can run past because no other class can do it with such ease.

They can't do the mission alone. Permas in Urgoz SCs are part of a team build and they're basically just decoys.

Quote:

DoA? Stygian Veil, they use Glyph to stop the Choking Gas. Symbiosis/Vital to boost hp. The other few skills that get by it are reduced using Barrier and some of the ele defence skills turning it into a super tank. 99% of the game is nullified, the other 1% can be built around with ease.

Yes, that rare, uber-leet triple-class, 11-slot permasin.

Quote:

Just out of interest... wtf is in Old Ascalon that can stop a Permasin? Gargoyles, Devourers, Grawl and Charr? Since when?

Crown of Thorns (signets).

Quote:

And we'll continue to do so until you stop being an ignorant tool by just dismissing everything about Perma because it can't do 'absolutely everything'. UWSC is its best example. Lone assassins solo'ing the majority of the quests in an endgame area in under 20 minutes?

Apparently UWSC is the ONLY example or you wouldn't keep coming to it like some talkshow political pundit.

Quote:

Clearly you just want to keep farming it or you have no concept of balance.

Pfft. I gave up on it because the effort isn't worth the reward, as far as I'm concerned. It's not particularly fun, and I can make more money per hour farming feathers, losing only the .00000001%^8[0] of getting some fancy skin out of the chest. I value a UWSC as about 4k since that's a fair average of what I get from the chest (might get an ecto, might get a crappy phantom key...)

I don't care if they nerf it, as I've said before (yet another point you pretend doesn't exist.) There are many ways to do so without rendering the skill useless everywhere else.

Quote:

I could apply this to your entire post. 'SF isn't overpowered because i said so' is the jist of what you've said.

I could see why you would think that, since anything that goes against your preconceived groupthink notions dribbles right out your ear.

Quote:

I'm not really sure you can call 'well it can't do everything' as a reason because someone else already pointed out that statement was clueless.

And the statement that it was clueless was clueless. "It can't do everything", with examples of things it can't do, is ENTIERLY appropriate as a response to "it can do everything."

Quote:

Nope, quite sure it takes the edge off it though. Those caps halfway up Snake Dance? How about Maw the Mountainheart? All those caps in the Mineral Springs? How about Perdition Rock? Abaddons Mouth bonus area? Depths of Madness? Etc, etc. Tyria is notorious for bosses not spawning. It took me 2-3 hours to cap Ether Prodigy because going to the deeper spawns before you could flag heroes was suicide.

Yes, Tyria is notorious for that. Which means, if you fight your way through the entire area every time, and through every group on the way to the area, rather than sneaking past what you can, then just fighting to the nearest boss spawn point and rezoning if it is not the right boss, is a very inefficient way of doing it. Doing it the efficient way means maybe 300g/run. Doing it the ridiculously slow way just to make back the money for the signet is slower, less efficient, and is not fun.

Quote:

Sorry but why did you feel the need to respond to a /sarcasm tag like i was being deadly serious?

Because you used sarcasm in a dismissive fashion against a point I never made.

Quote:

Believe it or not i do play this game and i have 1 of each profession too. My Ranger is a GWAMM and all professions have at least all non-elites of their profession. Pretty sure theres alot of unnecessary expense there.

And if you prefer to grind through missions and vanquishes over and over to pay for those expenses, fair play to you. That's your prerogative. Insisting that everyone else should do it the way you do only entitles you to a stream of 4-letter words.

Quote:

It helps if you consider what i wrote as a whole instead of ignoring the parts that quite clearly answer what you just replied with.

Mr. Pot? I have the attorney for Mr. Kettle on line 2. Something about a defamation suit...

[0] Before someone gets pedantic... No, I don't know the exact drop rates for the good skins. I chose a number suitably small to reflect the "effectively zero for the purposes of determining profitability" probability that I use.

S_Serpent · Jul 10, 2009, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerzFTW

No, they just went to the next thing - Shadow Form.

True, look what happened when they nerfed URSAN : only lesser people played those elite area's like DOA - they didn't go balanced or try those area's - it just stopped getting played and only the very top players and guilds kept venturing there. It will be just the same if they nerf permasins, ...

I don't believe permasins are good but ursan was good in its way to get people pugging without discrimantions of builds ....

There was lots more pugging when there was the old ursan then now and when perma is nerfed there will just simply be less grouping and pugging still.

Coast · Jul 10, 2009, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Largely, I agree.

RoJ was a good change when it was made, except that my first response on seeing it was "Isn't the damage just a leetle high for armour-ignoring damage on a Monk?" - and that was before we found out that it didn't scatter. I'd be willing to bet you could cut the damage by a quarter and it would still be a viable elite.

On SF...it's definitely become too good, but I don't think reverting it to Factions release is the answer. Problem with it now is, with the downside, SF is basically a "perma or bust" skill - if you can't perma it, you're highly likely to die when it expires unless you get out of dodge, making it a fairly niche-y skill that isn't really worth fitting into your elite slot when you could be bringing a Critical Agility/Moebius/Death Blossom combination (yes, Assassins can be viable nowadays without perma. People just got stuck in a rut of thinking them a liability without a gimmick, but they really aren't as long as they invest something into keeping themselves alive, and a GPS/DB/MS combination compresses the offensive portion of the bar wonderfully). My solution would be to give it PvP duration, but remove the downside - make it an effective panic button that doesn't just defer the panic to when it expires.

sf was a 5energy skill when factions was released, gogo wm!

shefdawg · Jul 12, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

I think that if they are going to keep SF in the game so that people can perma then they need to rework the elite areas so that the mobs in these areas can actually do something. THey did it once when they added the dying nightmares into UW now they need to do it again and add some signet monks and some signet messmers, or nerf it.

But in all actuality they prolly wont and they will just let people leave the game pissed with them, cause we all know that GW2 isnt coming out for a long time and when it does the same retards will run that game right into the ground just like this one.

Avarre · Jul 12, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

they didn't go balanced or try those area's - it just stopped getting played and only the very top players and guilds kept venturing there. It will be just the same if they nerf permasins, ...

It is not a bad thing for an elite area to be for the elite players.

Arkantos · Jul 12, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

It is not a bad thing for an elite area to be for the elite players.

Oh, I disagree, good sir! I bought this game, I'm entitled to being able to do anything! That means if I suck at the game and I was to do an elite mission, then you're damn right I'm going to!

On a serious note, this is true. You don't even have to be that good to do the 'elite' areas.

manitoba1073 · Jul 12, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

It is not a bad thing for an elite area to be for the elite players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Oh, I disagree, good sir! I bought this game, I'm entitled to being able to do anything! That means if I suck at the game and I was to do an elite mission, then you're damn right I'm going to!

On a serious note, this is true. You don't even have to be that good to do the 'elite' areas.

2 examples why the game got ruined right here folks.

Hate to bust your bubbles yet again, but Elite Area doesnt mean its for Elite Players. Nope simple means its a Harder than normal area.

Which is why Im so glad I left GW when I did because with Anet going about making it official that they are going to continue listening to the wrong ppl. But enjoy your dying game.

Arkantos · Jul 12, 2009, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

2 examples why the game got ruined right here folks.

Hate to bust your bubbles yet again, but Elite Area doesnt mean its for Elite Players. Nope simple means its a Harder than normal area.

Which is why Im so glad I left GW when I did because with Anet going about making it official that they are going to continue listening to the wrong ppl. But enjoy your dying game.

The game got ruined because of people with common sense who say elite areas are for good players? Oh okay. Pretty sure you're taking the phrase 'elite players' too seriously.

Regardless of who ANet listens to, without any new content the game is going to die. And yeah, they are listening to the wrong people. A skill that makes you invincible in most areas of the game hasn't been touched yet.

manitoba1073 · Jul 12, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The game got ruined because of people with common sense who say elite areas are for good players? Oh okay. Pretty sure you're taking the phrase 'elite players' too seriously.

Regardless of who ANet listens to, without any new content the game is going to die. And yeah, they are listening to the wrong people. A skill that makes you invincible in most areas of the game hasn't been touched yet.

Im not the one that has taken the phrase "ELITE" to seriously. Look at all the Elite missions how they are set-up, doesnt mean they are for the "ELITE" players only like some around here try to claim. It is simple as meaning they are harder than normal.

Yet thats not a problem in and of itself with the skill. Its a problem with the area. No what ruined the game was the ppl who ran into a brick wall and instead of using there brains of stepping to the side and walking around the obstacle they whinned and cried to Anet to bash said wall down. Those are the ones that was listened too.

Yes there was need for new content, only a fool would think that wasnt needed.

Avarre · Jul 12, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

No what ruined the game was the ppl who ran into a brick wall and instead of using there brains of stepping to the side and walking around the obstacle they whinned and cried to Anet to bash said wall down. Those are the ones that was listened too.

That's exactly the point Arkantos and I raised, and the point you said was 'the reason the game was ruined' in your very last post. Calling for the imbalanced farming skills, the skills that 'bashed said wall down' to be removed forces people to 'us[e] there brains' rather than have it handed to them.

Get it together, sirrah.

manitoba1073 · Jul 12, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

That's exactly the point Arkantos and I raised, and the point you said was 'the reason the game was ruined' in your very last post. Calling for the imbalanced farming skills, the skills that 'bashed said wall down' to be removed forces people to 'us[e] there brains' rather than have it handed to them.

Get it together, sirrah.

Talk about misreading what is written, Its exactly the opposite of what you are Arkantos is arguing. Look at SF, perfect example right here and now. Instead of taking or changing 1 little teeny tiny skill ( taking the steps to walk around said Wall ) you advocate nerfing it ( bashing the wall down ). Which has been the same way for 90% of the nerfs that have been down.

Though I am glad to see that you agree ppl need to use there brains, now how about actually doing exactly that.

The biggest problem here on guru is that the vast majority on here wouldnt know real balance if it slapped them up the side of there heads.

The best thing Anet could ever do right now next to adding a bunch of new content that would need to last for the next 10 months till GW2 comes around, would be to restore that 90% of nerfed skills to the way they were. Then and only then go back after about a month when things got settled to adjust acordinly. Notice the use of adjust and not nerf.

YunSooJin · Jul 12, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Talk about misreading what is written, Its exactly the opposite of what you are Arkantos is arguing. Look at SF, perfect example right here and now. Instead of taking or changing 1 little teeny tiny skill ( taking the steps to walk around said Wall ) you advocate nerfing it ( bashing the wall down ). Which has been the same way for 90% of the nerfs that have been down.

Though I am glad to see that you agree ppl need to use there brains, now how about actually doing exactly that.

The biggest problem here on guru is that the vast majority on here wouldnt know real balance if it slapped them up the side of there heads.

The best thing Anet could ever do right now next to adding a bunch of new content that would need to last for the next 10 months till GW2 comes around, would be to restore that 90% of nerfed skills to the way they were. Then and only then go back after about a month when things got settled to adjust acordinly. Notice the use of adjust and not nerf.

Problem with gurus is there are a lot of people who think they know real balance but in reality dont have a clue...

edit: oh and the general attitude of the community, ie I'm entitled to whatever I want, whenever I want, and if you try to keep me out even if I suck it's elitism.

ApocalypseAzza · Jul 12, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

I'm an old school player, I played in the beta games but I havent been active throughout. I find Guild Wars has completely lost what it had, I can't find anyone to play with anymore and the only time i interact with other players is when farming, its all farming. To do anything decent in PvE you need some close friends or in a good close guild, but they don't seem to exist anymore and if you are in one you are very lucky.

Kendel · Jul 13, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Talk about misreading what is written, Its exactly the opposite of what you are Arkantos is arguing. Look at SF, perfect example right here and now. Instead of taking or changing 1 little teeny tiny skill ( taking the steps to walk around said Wall ) you advocate nerfing it ( bashing the wall down ). Which has been the same way for 90% of the nerfs that have been down.

Though I am glad to see that you agree ppl need to use there brains, now how about actually doing exactly that.

The biggest problem here on guru is that the vast majority on here wouldnt know real balance if it slapped them up the side of there heads.

The best thing Anet could ever do right now next to adding a bunch of new content that would need to last for the next 10 months till GW2 comes around, would be to restore that 90% of nerfed skills to the way they were. Then and only then go back after about a month when things got settled to adjust acordinly. Notice the use of adjust and not nerf.

I think you fail to see difference between building to allow you to get around the wall, and eating 500 Mario Shrooms and simply stepping over it.

SF is 1 of the best examples PvE has ever had for a skill that needs utterly destroying, not just nerfing. Similar to why Izzy completely destroyed Smiter's Boon in PvP, it simply creates a style of gameplay that should never exist. Cannot be hit by attacks and all spells fail? It has a penalty for this, its called 'you are left with ~50 health', but since it never ends the skill becomes an invincibility button with no drawbacks.

Using the word 'adjust' over 'nerf' is called optimism. They change alot of skills, some become strong, some become ok but not worth using, some become stupidly overpowered. The fact is these days it takes them 6 months just to bother to nerf the stupidly overpowered ones, getting them to buff the weaker ones could take years.

manitoba1073 · Jul 13, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

I think you fail to see difference between building to allow you to get around the wall, and eating 500 Mario Shrooms and simply stepping over it.

SF is 1 of the best examples PvE has ever had for a skill that needs utterly destroying, not just nerfing. Similar to why Izzy completely destroyed Smiter's Boon in PvP, it simply creates a style of gameplay that should never exist. Cannot be hit by attacks and all spells fail? It has a penalty for this, its called 'you are left with ~50 health', but since it never ends the skill becomes an invincibility button with no drawbacks.

Using the word 'adjust' over 'nerf' is called optimism. They change alot of skills, some become strong, some become ok but not worth using, some become stupidly overpowered. The fact is these days it takes them 6 months just to bother to nerf the stupidly overpowered ones, getting them to buff the weaker ones could take years.

And to prove yet again why ppl like you fail.

Load up SF on ur skill bar only and go solo. Fraps it. Bring that video back here and once u show us that you have cleared even Tangle Root zone out then ill aggre with you. Remember its your claim that SF is over powered.

However as been said its a combination of skills. But now with that as the case then you have to also in your own words Utterly Destroy the Warrior class also because it is the only class that can solo 90% of the game. The you have Ranger which runs the second most farming builds.

shefdawg · Jul 13, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

And to prove yet again why ppl like you fail.

Load up SF on ur skill bar only and go solo. Fraps it. Bring that video back here and once u show us that you have cleared even Tangle Root zone out then ill aggre with you. Remember its your claim that SF is over powered.

However as been said its a combination of skills. But now with that as the case then you have to also in your own words Utterly Destroy the Warrior class also because it is the only class that can solo 90% of the game. The you have Ranger which runs the second most farming builds.

Dude i seriously think you totally missing the point, it the point was a broad side of a barn door you hit the the next door neighbor's house, lol. We have already established it's not just one skill but rather three. And when was the last time that you have ever seen a warrior or a ranger speed clear one of these elite areas in 15 mins. or heck even be able to solo 9/10s of the game such as the perma sin can. I mean dude have you even read what the skill does, for such and such time ALLLLLLLLLLLL attacks against you fail and ALLLLLLLLL spells against you fail. WOW what a stupid skill to even add to this game to be honest, when this game is about the damage you take and ways to maybe reduce, or heal it up.

And as per everyone else arguing that these areas are not supposed to be hard that is crap cause look at them, URGOZ and the DEEP you cant even get to till you beat the game, same with DOA, THEY ARE ELITE. last time i looked at the word elite it did not say hey elite is just a tad bit harder than normal, its for people that know how to play but in this game any shmuck can do them, kind of disgusting if you ask me.

UnChosen · Jul 13, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

And to prove yet again why ppl like you fail.

Load up SF on ur skill bar only and go solo. Fraps it. Bring that video back here and once u show us that you have cleared even Tangle Root zone out then ill aggre with you. Remember its your claim that SF is over powered.

However as been said its a combination of skills. But now with that as the case then you have to also in your own words Utterly Destroy the Warrior class also because it is the only class that can solo 90% of the game. The you have Ranger which runs the second most farming builds.

Exactly! SF in ordinary situations are really not that great.

As a solo farm, a lot of other classes can also do the same thing with the same or higher efficiency. The only area that sin farm used to have an advantage, the chaos planes in UW, had been nerfed.

A perma in pugs is only a slightly better tank and most groups still fail because they ain't prepared for AoE scatter. Not to mention any areas with traps/signet/touch skills becomes strictly off limit to a perma tank.

As a runner, most classes have just effective an option, not to mention a 600 duo/trio can clear dungeons while perma cannot.

The fact that a perma has to use up 3 skill slots to maintain, and the fact that the energy cost is so intensive now that they need to use at least another slot for energy management means that the character can't do other stuff with much efficiency. Of course there is one exception....

The only scenario where Shadow Form can be qualified as OP is the UW/FoWSC, which does not represent the other 99% of the game. And the run is only possible because its possible to do multiple areas at the same time which allows multiple perma to substantially increase the speed. The solution is to just adjust the area, not nerfing the skill.